[Raine]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Normally, on Remembrance Day, I host my radio show with a 2 hr special honouring those who have fallen in service to the defense of liberty and freedom. And every year, I see people talking or laughing or carrying on in someway during the minute of silence that we observe on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month... and it really irks me. So I've been thinking of a way to drive it home to people even tho I'm not doing my show this year:

Think of everyone you've met whose name you can remember... remember their face, their handshake, their smile. Think of everyone you've ever met who's name holds presence in your mind for whatever reason. For some of us, it may be 50, for others 500... in your mind go thru them, like you would a rolodex, taking 1 second to pause for each just to remember a slight detail about them... If you're like me, that'll take you at least 2 minutes... two minutes to think of 120 people that I've been interviewed by, or cursed at, or met and hoped to never have to meet again... 2 minutes to think of friends, of family, of past relationships...

2 minutes to think of everyone I know who was important enough to make a contribution in my life.

In the First world war alone, 22,104,209 men were either killed or wounded to defend the west from the central powers of germany and her allies. 22 MILLION IN 4 YEARS

World War II saw another 32 Million+ casualties on the allied side as we rebelled against the audacious surge of the Nazi 3rd Reich...

Since then countless soldiers have fallen in wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and elsewhere...

And those are just the military numbers...

Think of all the civilians, including doctors, engineers, children, who became casualties of war...

Our last century has been stained red by the blood of over 100,000,000 deaths during war on the side we consider fighting for the west alone...

If you took a second to remember 100,000,000 people, you'd be stopped in silence for over 3 years...

Is one minute really so damned much to ask?

Lest we forget...

[ANTHONYD]

The problem today is....they don;t teach the kids enough about our participation in any of the world wars.

I remember remberance day assemblies, trips to the library, assignments etc...all revolvolving around the veterans.

Kids today are uneducated and just don't care.

Not to mention, the country is ALOT more multicultural than it used to be....I'm willing to bet a year's salary that the multicultural kids in this country are not learning about why this country is a good as it is at home. Why on earth would Mr. Kaluahajit teach his kids about Canadian history??? He's more likely to teach tham about their own history.

And I'm betting that for the most part, he doesn't realize that the, main reason he is allowed to live here is because of our troops.

I'm tired, that may not have made much sense.

[NOS2Go4Me]

I agree with both of you. Completely. How's that for weird? :huh:

I actually blogged about Remembrance Day before I left for class... have a look.

[Raine]

I expect to see immigrants carrying on, because they don't know better, but I see more of them wearing poppies than I do 6th or 7th generation cakers... Nobody cares like they used to... they think they're above that...

[Flofocus]

I think this is one of the remberence days where you actually se ethe youth coming out. I dont remeber seeing as many children coming out to these things...

I would have to strongly disagree that kids arent being taught what our vets did in Wwars. The kids ARE out there supporting them, and remembering what they did.

Turn on your TV, youll see the kids hanging out by the train tracks...all the way from Halifax...and a lot of kids will be at the war memorial.

[darkpuppet]

NOS2Go4Me,Nov 11 2005, 10:10 AM Wrote:I agree with both of you. Completely. How's that for weird? :huh:

I actually blogged about Remembrance Day before I left for class... have a look.
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sorry I don't do blog.

[microbunny]

My poppy gave me a rash from the pin poking me in the nipple!...I think it was a reused poppy....

Never share used poppies people!! I can't stress this enough!

[OAC_Sparky]

ANTHONYD,Nov 11 2005, 09:06 AM Wrote:Kids today are uneducated and just don't care.[right][snapback]155122[/snapback][/right]

Sorry, I have to slightly disagree. Kids are just as educated and do not care any less than we did when we were kids.

Their method of upbringing is different, mainly because THEIR parents had the luxury of not going to war.

What do we teach our kids now? We complain that our military is a mere shadow of its former self. (Sorry Slimsride and Drivesthebeast, I was in the military myself). It's hard to make a decent living, it's pathetic. But do we do anything about it? No. Can't raise those taxes, but we can send $500Million to Zimbabwe for warlords to squander. Our government is a joke. National pride? What is that? Really?

My grandfather just passed in January, wounded twice in WWII, the second being a German grenade that if it was a foot closer would have killed kim. I had a grandfather and three uncles in the British army, one uncle didn't make it back, and a step-grandfather that was a navigator in the RAF. They told me the stories, and it stuck with me.

Those are the people that taught you to stand up straight, stop dragging your feet, get your elbows off the table and take your hat off inside the house. A whole different set of values.

What stories do we tell our kids? About the smoking pot and nailing Suzy Rottencrotch in high school? If we look at our collective youth, what have we done to show self-sacrifice for the greater good? A major catastophe when I was a kid was not getting that Atari game I wanted. For my Dad growing up in Scotland it was hoping that his city didn't get bombed and that his dad and brothers made it home intact.

Anyways, this has turned into a rant, but my point is this:

Values such as national pride, self-worth and self-reliance are cultivated, not inborn. As much as we'd like to see teachers teach our children these things, we've handcuffed them with political correctness and a tight educational agenda.

Kids are only apathetic because we allow them to be, because we as a society have become too lazy and too self centered to make the effort. We as parents, just like our parents and their parents, are ultimately responsible for teaching these values. So we have to look ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves, "Are we doing our job?".

My $.02, anyways.

[darkpuppet]

I actually got to thinking... what does it mean to remember on Rememberance Day?

While my grandfather did serve in WWII, I don't feel any connection to those who served back then, and my appreciation of them ends at my appreciation of my country. So what is it I'm remembering?

I remember my patriotism, and I remember why Canada is so great to me. But I do this every single day of the year. I live my life well, try to lead by example, and work freakin' hard to make the most out of the life that is afforded me.

That I live in a free country, a great country, I'll always remember, each and every single day.

So when one day comes along, where, to me, people want me to remember something I have no connection to, I find it hard. I can appreciate everything our veterans did for us, but it's hard for me to pull out any more patriotism out of me for Rememberance Day itself.

And it leaves me wondering what the hell I've got wrong in me that I don't connect with Rememberance Day as so many people seem to. It's like I can't internally over-dramatize it enough to warrant an emotional connection on the subject...

[NOS2Go4Me]

The values you're speaking of are hard to "cultivate", as it were, because everyone keeps coming here in search of a free ride, getting it, and spreading their apathy to the general public.

This is not the Canada of my childhood. In grade school, we showed respect to the vets and thanked them. In high school, it was an honour to meet and talk with them. These days, and I agree with Anthony on this 100%, there are more people here who have no ties to the vets who gave everything than there are direct descendants of vets. It really feels that way anyways - especially in the last few years.

People flee violence in whatever land they're from and they come here, or the States. They arrive. They show no respect for customs or traditions here, and then they expect us to respect and accomodate them.

I DON'T FLAMING THINK SO! :angry: :angry:

I learned while having supper with my parents last night that apparently they want to remove Halloween from the schools, as it angers certain "special interest groups". So I'm not labelled a racist, I won't say which ones.

All I have to say is if that goes through... then everyone who didn't oppose it deserves a smack in the back of the head. What's next, Thanksgiving doesn't mean anything to the immigrants of the last 30 years, so that's gone too? :fag:

[OAC_Sparky]

NOS2Go4Me,Nov 11 2005, 09:50 AM Wrote:The values you're speaking of are hard to "cultivate", as it were, because everyone keeps coming here in search of a free ride, getting it, and spreading their apathy to the general public.
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I was speaking more to the supposition that kids don't care. We lead by example.

Yes, it cheeses me off awith the issue of immigrants not caring. Again, it's because of us and our lax requirements for immigration.

In the States, to become a citizen, the test is pretty stringent. Is it here?

Ask anyone "What nationality are you?"

The answer should be "Canadian"

[NOS2Go4Me]

Actually, I believe it begins at home. And if they don't speak English or French at home as a first language... uh-oh.

It shouldn't fall to the schools to primarily educate the kids, and the Legions are a support and secondary education tool at that point.

My stand is that if you come to this country and call yourself a Canadian, you should support and remember those who did what many others couldn't... whether it was 60 years ago or 5.

Sadly, in the States they have it right... but they use zealot-levels of fanaticism to educate the kids.

In Canada, we hope they'll read about it on the Internet... :rolleyes:

[crazikev]

when i was in grade 10, we had an american for Canadian History class.

When WW2 came up, the first thing she said was that WW2 was from 1942 to 1945. I Flipped :angry:

[Raine]

crazikev,Nov 11 2005, 10:36 AM Wrote:when i was in grade 10, we had an american for Canadian History class.

When WW2 came up, the first thing she said was that WW2 was from 1942 to 1945.  I Flipped :angry:
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I would have walked out of the class

Something I forgot to mention was a thank you to all the guys like Drivesthebeast, Slimsride, and even 2001ZTS for making the choice to honour your patriotism and serve our armed forces. Even if some of you aren't deployed into combat or hostile operations zones, the fact that you chose to serve your country as opposed to the next corporate giant is something worthy of respect.

[NOS2Go4Me]

^^ Indeed. The rest of us are just civilians at the end of the day.

[P-51]

darkpuppet,Nov 11 2005, 02:49 PM Wrote:I actually got to thinking...  what does it mean to remember on Rememberance Day?

While my grandfather did serve in WWII, I don't feel any connection to those who served back then, and my appreciation of them ends at my appreciation of my country.  So what is it I'm remembering?

I remember my patriotism, and I remember why Canada is so great to me.  But I do this every single day of the year.  I live my life well, try to lead by example, and work freakin' hard to make the most out of the life that is afforded me.

That I live in a free country, a great country, I'll always remember, each and every single day. 

So when one day comes along, where, to me, people want me to remember something I have no connection to, I find it hard.  I can appreciate everything our veterans did for us, but it's hard for me to pull out any more patriotism out of me for Rememberance Day itself.

And it leaves me wondering what the hell I've got wrong in me that I don't connect with Rememberance Day as so many people seem to.  It's like I can't internally over-dramatize it enough to warrant an emotional connection on the subject...
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I'm with you man. I know what you're talking about, because I'm super patriotic too.

The thing to remember is, today is not about Canada. It's about the vets who fought for it. And think about that...

How do you make Rememberance Day special when you have no "connection" to those who fought? Ask yourself: You say you are patriotic, but would you LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE for Canada?

Think about that on this day. This is what today is about. Remember their sacrifices, and think about what it means. It means loving Canada so much, as to sacrifice your life to protect it.

Canada Day is for celebrating Canada.

Rememberance Day is for thinking about those who *went to war* to protect Canada, and the sacrifices they made. And I think part of honouring the vets, is asking yourself, would you do the same?

I ask myself that somewhat frequently, and I know I would do it. I actually signed up for the Reserves one summer, but I was too late and they were full.

I get pretty disappointing to see how it works in the US. It's sad.

They call today Veteran's Day. And nobody does ANYTHING for it. It's like it doesn't exist. The UAW for example, negotiated to get the day off, a long time ago. But some time ago, they actually changed it... they wanted that day later in November, so they could go hunting. So they don't get today off, they get the first day of hunting season off.

I think that's damned pathetic.

They also do Memorial Day in May, but if you ask me, that's also lost it's respect. It's more about the first long weekend of the summer, than remembering war. (Who thinks of the queen on Victoria day!)

I wore a poppy to work today. Nobody has a clue what it's about. One guy asked me if today is Canada Day. I'm not kidding. He thought maybe it was a maple leaf. His mind couldn't even recall that today is Veteran's Day, and maybe we do something in Canada.

Everybody else stares at, and not many actually ask. They have no idea. It's sad.

Oh, that same guy... When I told him it was Rememberance Day, he said "What, for the 12 Canadians who died?" I could hit him, if he wasn't two levels up. I told him we had more people per capita in the war than they did.

[crazikev]

P-51,Nov 11 2005, 02: Wrote:

darkpuppet,Nov 11 2005, 02:49 PM Wrote:I actually got to thinking...  what does it mean to remember on Rememberance Day?

While my grandfather did serve in WWII, I don't feel any connection to those who served back then, and my appreciation of them ends at my appreciation of my country.  So what is it I'm remembering?

I remember my patriotism, and I remember why Canada is so great to me.  But I do this every single day of the year.  I live my life well, try to lead by example, and work freakin' hard to make the most out of the life that is afforded me.

That I live in a free country, a great country, I'll always remember, each and every single day. 

So when one day comes along, where, to me, people want me to remember something I have no connection to, I find it hard.  I can appreciate everything our veterans did for us, but it's hard for me to pull out any more patriotism out of me for Rememberance Day itself.

And it leaves me wondering what the hell I've got wrong in me that I don't connect with Rememberance Day as so many people seem to.  It's like I can't internally over-dramatize it enough to warrant an emotional connection on the subject...
[right][snapback]155141[/snapback][/right]

I'm with you man. I know what you're talking about, because I'm super patriotic too.

The thing to remember is, today is not about Canada. It's about the vets who fought for it. And think about that...

How do you make Rememberance Day special when you have no "connection" to those who fought? Ask yourself: You say you are patriotic, but would you LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE for Canada?

Think about that on this day. This is what today is about. Remember their sacrifices, and think about what it means. It means loving Canada so much, as to sacrifice your life to protect it.

Canada Day is for celebrating Canada.

Rememberance Day is for thinking about those who *went to war* to protect Canada, and the sacrifices they made. And I think part of honouring the vets, is asking yourself, would you do the same?

I ask myself that somewhat frequently, and I know I would do it. I actually signed up for the Reserves one summer, but I was too late and they were full.

I get pretty disappointing to see how it works in the US. It's sad.

They call today Veteran's Day. And nobody does ANYTHING for it. It's like it doesn't exist. The UAW for example, negotiated to get the day off, a long time ago. But some time ago, they actually changed it... they wanted that day later in November, so they could go hunting. So they don't get today off, they get the first day of hunting season off.

I think that's damned pathetic.

They also do Memorial Day in May, but if you ask me, that's also lost it's respect. It's more about the first long weekend of the summer, than remembering war. (Who thinks of the queen on Victoria day!)

I wore a poppy to work today. Nobody has a clue what it's about. One guy asked me if today is Canada Day. I'm not kidding. He thought maybe it was a maple leaf. His mind couldn't even recall that today is Veteran's Day, and maybe we do something in Canada.

Everybody else stares at, and not many actually ask. They have no idea. It's sad.

Oh, that same guy... When I told him it was Rememberance Day, he said "What, for the 12 Canadians who died?" I could hit him, if he wasn't two levels up. I told him we had more people per capita in the war than they did.
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i woulda got fired and a lengthy jail sentence if someone said that to my face, frigin scum of the earth,
Ask him what he did for the country? and if he can't respect the people who actually did, then he should get the F*ck out!

[darkpuppet]

P-51,Nov 11 2005, 03: Wrote:Oh, that same guy... When I told him it was Rememberance Day, he said "What, for the 12 Canadians who died?"  I could hit him, if he wasn't two levels up.  I told him we had more people per capita in the war than they did.
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If someone in my company did that, I'd have them sent on diversity training, no matter how far up the ladder they were. It's ignorant, and rude.

We were on the front lines huffing mustard gas long before America decided they were fashionably late enough. On the converse side of things, Americans wouldn't join a war if it were to make the world a better place for everyone. They like wars that only make the world a better place for themselves.

[P-51]

Quote:i woulda got fired and a lengthy jail sentence if someone said that to my face, frigin scum of the earth,
Ask him what he did for the country? and if he can't respect the people who actually did, then he should get the F*ck out!

He's never been the fark in. I work in the US.

One guy here knew what it was about. He's Italian/German and has family in Windsor, that's probably why.

[crazikev]

P-51,Nov 11 2005, 02: Wrote:

Quote:i woulda got fired and a lengthy jail sentence if someone said that to my face, frigin scum of the earth,
Ask him what he did for the country? and if he can't respect the people who actually did, then he should get the F*ck out!

He's never been the fark in. I work in the US.

One guy here knew what it was about. He's Italian/German and has family in Windsor, that's probably why.
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ah, i see, well then <_<

but if it was in Canada :angry: