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As I was warming up the back of the wagon for the kids this morning, I was reminded of the huge fight I had with Ford to get the rear seat heat ducts installed on our '04 ZTW.
And so for those of you with '04 models, this is a reminder that you don't have them -- and with the heater control set to "floor," the hot air that should be going to the rear seats, is actually being directed into the centre console.
If you want to read the original thread ... click here.
2008 Fusion SEL MTX - DD1 * 2009 Fusion SEL - DD2 * 2007 Focus ZXW - R*I*P * 2004 Focus ZTW CD Silver - sold * 2004 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2003 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2001 Focus ZTW Gold - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Black - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Gold R*I*P
2003 Focus ZX5 infra-red Track Rat - R*I*P
2003 ZX5 CD Silver Track Rat - retired, but still in the driveway
New track rat: 2000 ZX3, Atlantic Blue * JRSC with lots more to come
* New Zetec crate motor - NFG - thanks Topspeed *
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I remember that fight.....
what happened?
I'm too lazy to read the whole thread.
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So the 04 ZTW has a built-in bagel warmer when the rear duct delete was done? I fail to see how this is an issue? :huh:
:P
Daily driver 1: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport "S"
33" BFG Mud-Terrain KM2s, lots of Rough Country gear - bumper, 2.5" lift, swaybar disconnects, Superwinch 10,000lb winch, Detroit Locker in rear D44 axle, custom exhaust, K+N filtercharger, Superchips-tuned.
Daily driver 2: 2006 Subaru Legacy GT
COBB Stage 1+ package - AccessPort tuner, COBB intake and airbox. Stage 2 coming shortly - COBB 3" AT stainless DP and race cat, custom 3" Magnaflow-based exhaust and Stage 2 COBB tune.
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NOS2Go4Me,Nov 22 2005, 10:19 AM Wrote:So the 04 ZTW has a built-in bagel warmer when the rear duct delete was done? I fail to see how this is an issue? :huh:
:P
[right][snapback]157081[/snapback][/right]
Not just the ZTW - all 2004 model Focus. From 2000 through 2003, all Focus had them standard ... as they do in 2005/06. Just deleted the one year.
In any event, it may not be an issue for you; for me, it was the following:
1) No heat to the rear seat - I have children that sit back there.
2) The plenum opening was left unblocked which means that at the "floor" setting air is directed under the console and not into the cabin. Ask yourself this: if the outside of the console is almost too hot to touch, how hot is it on the inside of the console? So you tell me ... what is the affect of all that heat under the console on such things as the carpet, traction control switch, seat heater switch, gear linkage, the console itself, etc? If your answer is "I don't know" -- that's the answer I got from Ford.
3) A matter of principle ... if all of FOC's marketing materials, brochures, website and dealer order guides say that a rear seat heat duct is standard, it bloody well should be there; and if it isn't, they should suck it up and make it right without a fuss.
The outcome? FOC refused to install the ducts claiming it would be a "modification" that would void the warranty!! So I had my dealer install them and I paid for it myself - just $105. As a matter of fact, Ford didn't have any in stock in NA, and they had to get one from the wreckers.
After months of applying logic and appealing to their sense of fairness to no avail, I started a CAMVAP claim, which Ford fought vigorously.
One week before we were to be in court (so to speak), I got a call from a technical guy at Ford saying that a cheque was in the mail. The sweet thing is they paid the whole invoice which also included an oil change, a total of $155.
In the meantime I had cancelled my order for an '05 ST and decided that the '04 was my last Ford. Idiots.
2008 Fusion SEL MTX - DD1 * 2009 Fusion SEL - DD2 * 2007 Focus ZXW - R*I*P * 2004 Focus ZTW CD Silver - sold * 2004 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2003 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2001 Focus ZTW Gold - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Black - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Gold R*I*P
2003 Focus ZX5 infra-red Track Rat - R*I*P
2003 ZX5 CD Silver Track Rat - retired, but still in the driveway
New track rat: 2000 ZX3, Atlantic Blue * JRSC with lots more to come
* New Zetec crate motor - NFG - thanks Topspeed *
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ZTWsquared,Nov 22 2005, 10:53 AM Wrote:After months of applying logic and appealing to their sense of fairness to no avail, I started a CAMVAP claim, which Ford fought vigorously.
One week before we were to be in court (so to speak), I got a call from a technical guy at Ford saying that a cheque was in the mail. The sweet thing is they paid the whole invoice which also included an oil change, a total of $155.
In the meantime I had cancelled my order for an '05 ST and decided that the '04 was my last Ford. Idiots.
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Jebus *sigh*....shouldnt even have to come to this, but thumbs up for taking them all the way threw. More customers should do this but lose interest pretty quick....
I hope some sort of FOC rep reads these kind of sites. <_<
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Congrats on your win against FoMoCo ZTW! I think your making a good call, I would send a copy of all materials and a letter back to Ford thanking them for for all the BS they put you through and informing them that you & your family will never purchase a Ford again and that they have lost a few customers for life for being such morons in the first place.
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I was wondering why my console was getting so hot ! I just purchased an 04 and I thought that maybe the exhaust or something was causing the console to get hot.Now I am wondering what I should do. :angry:
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TonyDee,Nov 22 2005, 12:33 PM Wrote:I was wondering why my console was getting so hot ! I just purchased an 04 and I thought that maybe the exhaust or something was causing the console to get hot.Now I am wondering what I should do. :angry:
[right][snapback]157091[/snapback][/right]
1st thing you should do is call up FOC and put in an official complaint. Maybe give them the URL for this thread ;)
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so basically you got the ducts installed but now you have no way to warm up that coffee of yours, Yeah Nice going.
j/k good job. Glad to see the small ppl win instead of those big companies for once.
"Coming together is a beginning, staying together is progress, and working together is success."
--Henry Ford
00 Focus ZX3 Silver- Sold
01 Focus ZX3 Green- Sold
01 Focus ZTS Red- Sold
03 Focus ZTW Green Sold
04 Escape LTD Silver- Sold
05 Freestyle LTD Black-Sold
02 Honda CRV EX-L-Sold
02 VW Jetta GLS TDI Silver-Sold
11 VW Jetta TDI 6spd Mine 
10 VW Golf Highline DSG- wrote off 
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Flofocus,Nov 22 2005, 12:35 PM Wrote:TonyDee,Nov 22 2005, 12:33 PM Wrote:I was wondering why my console was getting so hot ! I just purchased an 04 and I thought that maybe the exhaust or something was causing the console to get hot.Now I am wondering what I should do. :angry:
[right][snapback]157091[/snapback][/right]
1st thing you should do is call up FOC and put in an official complaint. Maybe give them the URL for this thread ;)
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Yup ... you have to work through their system ... call the 800 number and let them tell you that you have to go to the dealer (that gets your complaint registered) ... then talk to the dealer.
If your dealer is like mine they will want to help ... but the warranty claim will probably be denied by the service DOM (area rep) ... and then you will have to escalate your complaint to head office ... where you will probably be denied.
Anyone who is serious about carrying this forward ... I am happy to share my letters and backup material - just send me a PM. The fact that I "won" might make it easier for others.
2008 Fusion SEL MTX - DD1 * 2009 Fusion SEL - DD2 * 2007 Focus ZXW - R*I*P * 2004 Focus ZTW CD Silver - sold * 2004 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2003 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2001 Focus ZTW Gold - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Black - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Gold R*I*P
2003 Focus ZX5 infra-red Track Rat - R*I*P
2003 ZX5 CD Silver Track Rat - retired, but still in the driveway
New track rat: 2000 ZX3, Atlantic Blue * JRSC with lots more to come
* New Zetec crate motor - NFG - thanks Topspeed *
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I sense Ford's newest TSB developing....
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ZTWsquared,Nov 22 2005, 12:45 PM Wrote:Flofocus,Nov 22 2005, 12:35 PM Wrote:TonyDee,Nov 22 2005, 12:33 PM Wrote:I was wondering why my console was getting so hot ! I just purchased an 04 and I thought that maybe the exhaust or something was causing the console to get hot.Now I am wondering what I should do. :angry:
[right][snapback]157091[/snapback][/right]
1st thing you should do is call up FOC and put in an official complaint. Maybe give them the URL for this thread ;)
[right][snapback]157092[/snapback][/right]
Yup ... you have to work through their system ... call the 800 number and let them tell you that you have to go to the dealer (that gets your complaint registered) ... then talk to the dealer.
If your dealer is like mine they will want to help ... but the warranty claim will probably be denied by the service DOM (area rep) ... and then you will have to escalate your complaint to head office ... where you will probably be denied.
Anyone who is serious about carrying this forward ... I am happy to share my letters and backup material - just send me a PM. The fact that I "won" might make it easier for others.
[right][snapback]157094[/snapback][/right]
Called the 800 number and spoke to a fellow who documented my claim. He said that he would send it to the "Research Department". I was also advised to see my dealership. So I guess that my journey begins. I checked and Ford does in fact claim that there are rear heat ducts on their spec sheets for the 04 Focus. Do you have an official Ford publication that lists these rear heat ducts?
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Insane that it had to goto that measure....all for 150 bucks.
Question is...was all the time and effort you spent fighting that battle worth 150 bucks???
So sad.
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TonyDee,Nov 22 2005, 02:02 PM Wrote:I checked and Ford does in fact claim that there are rear heat ducts on their spec sheets for the 04 Focus. Do you have an official Ford publication that lists these rear heat ducts?
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The two most impactful pieces I have are:
1) A letter from my dealer stating that he went online to Ford dot ca and confirmed that the specs listed there for the 2004 Focus included standard rear seat heat ducts -- this was December 2004 which was right near the end of the model year.
2) Copies of the "Dealer Order Guide" which is Ford's official vehicle specification document that they send to dealers. FOC published the original guide May 26, 2003 ... and 2 revisions (July 1st and September 15th) -- all three versions clearly indicate that rear seat heat ducts were standard equipment for all series / all models.
Game, set, match.
2008 Fusion SEL MTX - DD1 * 2009 Fusion SEL - DD2 * 2007 Focus ZXW - R*I*P * 2004 Focus ZTW CD Silver - sold * 2004 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2003 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2001 Focus ZTW Gold - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Black - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Gold R*I*P
2003 Focus ZX5 infra-red Track Rat - R*I*P
2003 ZX5 CD Silver Track Rat - retired, but still in the driveway
New track rat: 2000 ZX3, Atlantic Blue * JRSC with lots more to come
* New Zetec crate motor - NFG - thanks Topspeed *
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11-23-2005, 06:55 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2005, 07:07 AM by TonyDee.)
Went to the dealership, who confirmed that my console was hot. The service manager had never heard of this problem and did not know what to do. Told me to call FOC back.
Called FOC back and they did not have a record of my claim. Gave them the name of the person who took the claim. He denies talking to me. I resubmitted my claim to a different person.
This person informed me that FOC reserves the right to change standard specifications witout notice. I was further informed that if I had the original build sheet it may or may not include this information.
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A big hammer is your best friend right now... keeping whacking FOC over the head till they relent. Also, the best way to garner North America-wide discussion is to post this very thing on FocusFanatics.com and FocalJet.com.
I know for a fact that different members of the top level offices of Ford frequent those sites in an unofficial capacity.
Daily driver 1: 2007 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport "S"
33" BFG Mud-Terrain KM2s, lots of Rough Country gear - bumper, 2.5" lift, swaybar disconnects, Superwinch 10,000lb winch, Detroit Locker in rear D44 axle, custom exhaust, K+N filtercharger, Superchips-tuned.
Daily driver 2: 2006 Subaru Legacy GT
COBB Stage 1+ package - AccessPort tuner, COBB intake and airbox. Stage 2 coming shortly - COBB 3" AT stainless DP and race cat, custom 3" Magnaflow-based exhaust and Stage 2 COBB tune.
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Done, I am a member at that site also.
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11-24-2005, 11:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2005, 11:45 PM by P-51.)
Geez guys, you weren't supposed to notice! :lol: I'm not kidding, Ford have a Material Cost Reduction program, and it was said that they would eliminate things that customers wouldn't notice.
I can't believe some of the things they've gotten rid of.
None of this surprises me one bit.
"Hey, lets get rid of rear seat heat ducts, I bet nobody notices."
"But then we'd need to redesign the duct system to eliminate the flow, and that will cost more money than we're going to save."
"Naw, just don't put the ducts on. The air will just blow around in the console and nobody will notice."
"But the console will get hot, people might notice, maybe we should test it?"
This goes on and on for a few months. Meanwhile, nobody tells the marketting people who need to prepare materials early.
Finally, as 04 Job 1 approaches, some manager somewhere realizes he hasn't hit his MCR target for the year. He won't get his bonus! So, he snaps his fingers and tells everyone to institute their MCR's.
It takes a few months for the info to trickle down to the marketting people.
I remember changing the oil on my wife's 01 ZTS, I noticed their was a bolt loose, one of the ones bolting the tranny to the engine. It was just about ready to fall out. However, nothing went wrong, so is it really needed? :lol: I was going to write an MCR to eliminate that bolt. :lol:
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P-51,Nov 24 2005, 09: Wrote:"Hey, lets get rid of rear seat heat ducts, I bet nobody notices."[right][snapback]157464[/snapback][/right]
That's right ... after all, it's not like these things were built for life in Canada!
P-51,Nov 24 2005, 09: Wrote:Finally, as 04 Job 1 approaches, some manager somewhere realizes he hasn't hit his MCR target for the year. He won't get his bonus! So, he snaps his fingers and tells everyone to institute their MCR's. [right][snapback]157464[/snapback][/right]
Finally an explanation that makes sense!
P-51,Nov 24 2005, 09: Wrote:"But the console will get hot, people might notice, maybe we should test it?"[right][snapback]157464[/snapback][/right]
One of the things I did early on was phone Transport Canada and talk to a recall specialist there. He said that in theory the excess heat under the console might pose a health or safety threat ... but he was powerless to do anything about it until someone actually experiences a fire or an accident or a health problem.
2008 Fusion SEL MTX - DD1 * 2009 Fusion SEL - DD2 * 2007 Focus ZXW - R*I*P * 2004 Focus ZTW CD Silver - sold * 2004 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2003 Focus ZTW Black - sold * 2001 Focus ZTW Gold - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Black - sold * 2000 Focus SE Wagon (ZTW option) - Gold R*I*P
2003 Focus ZX5 infra-red Track Rat - R*I*P
2003 ZX5 CD Silver Track Rat - retired, but still in the driveway
New track rat: 2000 ZX3, Atlantic Blue * JRSC with lots more to come
* New Zetec crate motor - NFG - thanks Topspeed *
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I brought this subject up on our local club forum. You would not of believed the response. I posted it not showing any insult to our local Ford dealer , but they happen to be the sponsor and you would not believe what happened. I have had to remove the post. It is very clear that I am not to post anything negative about our cars, or about Ford. :angry:
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