[naz]

I took my car to thunderhill for a track school during this oil sample (20-25min of sustained hard driving) and it looks like the oil did its job. I didn't have any oil consumption at the track and the wear values are pretty much the same as last time (which was all highway commuting).

I'm pretty happy with Rotella T and personally I think this sample is proof that even for track use a good quality conventional oil will get the job done and there is no need for full synth oil unless the vehicle specifically requires it

[D-Dub]

I think synthetic is better for the environment and nobody dies trying to get it from the middle east.

[02ztsian]

D-Dub,Oct 15 2007, 05: Wrote:I think synthetic is better for the environment and nobody dies trying to get it from the middle east.
[right][snapback]251042[/snapback][/right]

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I ever read.

[D-Dub]

02ztsian,Oct 16 2007, 08:27 AM Wrote:

D-Dub,Oct 15 2007, 05: Wrote:I think synthetic is better for the environment and nobody dies trying to get it from the middle east.
[right][snapback]251042[/snapback][/right]

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I ever read.
[right][snapback]251069[/snapback][/right]

Can you explain

[NefCanuck]

D-Dub,Oct 16 2007, 08: Wrote:

02ztsian,Oct 16 2007, 08:27 AM Wrote:

D-Dub,Oct 15 2007, 05: Wrote:I think synthetic is better for the environment and nobody dies trying to get it from the middle east.
[right][snapback]251042[/snapback][/right]

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I ever read.
[right][snapback]251069[/snapback][/right]

Can you explain
[right][snapback]251072[/snapback][/right]

Synthetic oil, despite what its name implies, is not in facta purely synthetic (IE: Man made) substance.

Synthetic oil is actually derived from crude oil, taking out impurities and putting in additive packages to replace what was removed, changing the properties of the oil, but at the end of the day it's still based on dino juice.

NefCanuck

[D-Dub]

NefCanuck,Oct 16 2007, 09:56 AM Wrote:

D-Dub,Oct 16 2007, 08: Wrote:

02ztsian,Oct 16 2007, 08:27 AM Wrote:

D-Dub,Oct 15 2007, 05: Wrote:I think synthetic is better for the environment and nobody dies trying to get it from the middle east.
[right][snapback]251042[/snapback][/right]

This is probably the most ridiculous thing I ever read.
[right][snapback]251069[/snapback][/right]

Can you explain
[right][snapback]251072[/snapback][/right]

Synthetic oil, despite what its name implies, is not in facta purely synthetic (IE: Man made) substance.

Synthetic oil is actually derived from crude oil, taking out impurities and putting in additive packages to replace what was removed, changing the properties of the oil, but at the end of the day it's still based on dino juice.

NefCanuck
[right][snapback]251081[/snapback][/right]

Your talking about semi-synthetic ..........synthetic is synthetic

[02ztsian]

Synthetic oil is not really synthetic....

http://synlube.com/synthetic.htm
As far as environmental impact, it's pretty much a wash...

http://environment.about.com/od/earthtalkc.../a/motoroil.htm

"The Pembina Institute has found that for each barrel of synthetic oil, an average of two tonnes of muskeg and trees is removed, two tonnes of tar sand are hauled, and three barrels of water heated by 21.3 metres (or 134 barrels) of natural gas are consumed. That’s for surface accessible bitumen that can be mined. For deeply buried bitumen, the destruction of boreal forest is less severe, but consumption of natural gas and water is doubled."
Quoted from http://cpj.ca/otherwork/Environment/inde...=1&x=86657

Synthetic oil is partially derived from base oils-in other words crude oil. Imported in part from the Middle East, Venezuela and Russia.

"Canada produces 2.3 million barrels of crude oil a day, primarily from the western provinces, of which 1.3 million barrels a day are exported to the United States. (Saudi Arabia is the United States’ major supplier, with Canada and Mexico alternating in second place.) But while Canada exports a significant amount of oil, it also imports oil – about 800,000 barrels a day, largely to Eastern Canada, from a variety of places, including the North Sea, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia."
Quoted from http://www.imperialoil.ca/canada-english/t...440gasoline.htm
So, the gasoline in your non-Focus comes in part from war-torn countries. So stop being a hypocrite.

[naz]

as others have already posted even a super mega bling full synthetic oil of entirely man made molecules still has to get its raw materials from somewhere.. so its not magic stuff that will save the environment if everyone uses it

also, after my current oil is done i'm going to try out a full synthetic "german castrol" 0w30 for winter time. for some reason the oil geeks at bitog.com wet themselves over this stuff so i will give it a try in my sube to see if the wears #s actually reduce. i'll keep you guys posted.. i know my '00 zx3 used 5w30 oil so a 0w30 would be acceptable.. if this 'german castrol' really IS better (and we actually have a way to measure better since i will have 3 analysis of rotella T 15w40 to compare against) it could be worth using despite the extra cost

[02ztsian]

Is that the Castrol SYNTEC European Formula?

[naz]

02ztsian,Oct 16 2007, 06:31 PM Wrote:Is that the  Castrol SYNTEC European Formula?
[right][snapback]251102[/snapback][/right]

yea it says made in germany on the back

others that i'm going to try if that 0w30 actually results in better #s are rotella T 5w40 and mobil 1 turbo diesel truck (delvac 1) 5w40 for summer track use

[Canadian ST]

Well I don't want to alarm you or anything but I hope you dont plan on using 15w40 in the winter, without at least a oilpan heater. At (-30) that oil will be like tar.

[naz]

Canadian ST,Oct 16 2007, 10:48 PM Wrote:Well I don't want to alarm you or anything but I hope you dont plan on using 15w40 in the winter, without at least a oilpan heater.                                          At  (-30) that oil will be like tar.
[right][snapback]251119[/snapback][/right]

i live in san francisco CA now maybe it will get to 45F on a cold day? 15w40 all yr long is not a big deal

but i do plan to go to tahoe where it will be actually cold so i'm switching over to a 0w30 at the end of november

when i lived in NJ i used 5w30 oil in the winter and avoided high rpm/full boost situations for extended periods of time

[P-51]

Quote:I'm pretty happy with Rotella T and personally I think this sample is proof that even for track use a good quality conventional oil will get the job done and there is no need for full synth oil unless the vehicle specifically requires it

You should note that that is a VERY good conventional oil. The additive pack in that diesel oil is massively better than in modern conventional car oils.

Just using regular car oil will NOT yield the same results.

Automotive oil is actually getting worse and worse over time, as they remove anti-wear additives with the goal of saving the Cat. Diesel oil isn't doing this.

I'm running Petro Canada Duron E 10W40 oil in my motorcycle instead of the expensive motorcycle branded oils. I will probably start using it in my ZX3 too. I may switch to Duron non-synthetic in my daily drivers.

[naz]

P51 what do you think of rotella T 5w40 and mobil 1 turbo diesel truck 5w40? they are both synthetics marketed for turbo diesels and i am thinking of getting some UOAs with those oils to see if they will protect my vehicle better than the conventional 15w40 i am using now. do you think this is a worthwhile experience or would i just be tossing away money?

also guys, please note P51 is thinking of using a 40 weight oil in his focus..

maybe more ppl should thinking about this (rotella T 15w40) oil instead of mobil 1 or redline 5w30 synthetic

[ZED_not_zee]

I've already switched to synthetic for a while now, I hear an old wives tail that stated going back to conventional is "bad" IO don't know how or why... this a great topic.. could you fill me in?

[naz]

ZED_not_zee,Oct 20 2007, 09:52 PM Wrote:I've already switched to synthetic for a while now,  I hear an old wives tail that stated going back to conventional is "bad" IO don't know how or why...  this a great topic.. could you fill me in?
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i haven't seen any tech that conclusively says why you can or can't switch back and forth between synthetic and conventionally.

i've heard that tale too and it usually goes something like 'your oil seal gets used to synthetic' and going back to conventional results in 'bad things' usually oil leakage

i'm not an oil expert by any means but i can't imagine any reason why oil seals would care one way or another what type of lubricant is flowing past them, and i haven't experienced any of the 'bad things' that are supposed to happen from switching between the two

the only thing i experienced due to switching was much higher than normal oil consumption when i used mobil 1 synthetic 10w30 oil however i found out thru later research that particular type of mobil 1 shears down to a 20 weight quickly in the WRX engine and that is the reason for the consumption

[ZED_not_zee]

interesting... I went from royal purple (forget the weight) to mobile one my last oil change because I could not find my usual RP, I bought a 20L pale for last years' season ... Ive found my car to be noisey'r on the whole and lose breath after a "few laps" I'm going back to the RP once I find another supplier for the 20L pale... which is a deal for $110 +tax.. and you get a nifty purple 20L pale after a year :D

[naz]

ZED_not_zee,Oct 21 2007, 05:48 AM Wrote:interesting...  I went from royal purple (forget the weight) to mobile one my last oil change because I could not find my usual RP,  I bought a 20L pale for last years' season ... Ive found my car to be noisey'r on the whole and lose breath after a "few laps" I'm going back to the RP once I find another supplier for the 20L pale... which is a deal for $110 +tax.. and you get a nifty purple 20L pale after a year :D
[right][snapback]251437[/snapback][/right]

i'm taking a guess that you are using mobil 1 5w30 synthetic and RP 5w30 synthetic?

if that is the case i think the extra noise etc is caused by the fact that 5w30 mobil 1 is really thing and shears down to a 20 weight easily (at least in the wrx UOA i have seen this is indeed the case). the noise etc could be the result of basically running a thinner oil... maybe your knock sensor got confused by the extra noise and started yanking timing (thinking it was knock?)

i'm pretty anti the mobil 1 xxw30 products i think they are too thin

[Spinal]

naz,Oct 21 2007, 01:56 PM Wrote:i'm pretty anti the mobil 1 xxw30 products i think they are too thin
[right][snapback]251447[/snapback][/right]

in my dads f150 ford used 5w20, its a v8....every time he'd go to start it the motor would chatter until the oil was pumped through the system. he switched to mobil 1, 10w30 and hasn't had a problem since. the 5w30 works fine in my fofo, thats all i use.

[naz]

take a look at the viscosities of mobil 1 5w30 and 10w30 shown on a UOA..

i have a taken a look at a number of UOA of those oils coming out of a wrx and other motors and the oils have sheared down to a 20 weight.

if you track your car or drive it hard in general (or if you have a turbo) i really think you should think twice about weather 5w30 or 10w30 that is effectively a 20 weight oil is good enough to use

and for what its worth.. the whole reason i get these UOAs to make sure that the oil is actually fine for the engine and my usage.. not just because the motor 'sounds' different or 'feels' different

for all the debate around oils in most car forums i'm surprised there aren't a lot of UOAs being done.. it is well worth it to bring some tech to the table when it comes to this stuff...