[BerinG]

ZX3TUNING,Oct 5 2006, 12:52 AM Wrote:LOL!
always fun to come into a one sided conversation newar then end.


I'm not sure what is special about running high 14s with a turbo...?
i cracked into the 14s back in `00 while NA and with less than 150fwhp and 145lb/ft.

Easy of install of any kit is all the in the kit.
a PWSC takes abour 14-18hours first time, i do it in about 10hours now.
JRSC's claim 10hours but usually it takes 12-14hours.
Vortech claimed 17hours but takes more like 30hours unless you have installed a ton of them.
Most turbo kits take about 14hours according to most sites.

there are always varriables to consider; broken parts, rusted bolts/nuts, retapping threads/holes.

As for performance, it's always interesting to see Turbo guys tout turbo's being easier to upgrade and have a higher limit.
Not always the truth.
with any system you will outgrow components and there is always a limit for how much boost a engine will take, turbo or SC.

simple facts are at about 250fwhp you are reaching the "safe" limits of wehat a Stock Zetec can hold. tuning aside, more than 250 and you are pushing your luck and that goes for turbo or NA.
"well with a Turbo it's easier to get more power and for cheaper, you just have to flip a switch or turn a nob and turn up the boost!"
while this is true, to a point, it also is not true.
flipping said switch or turning a nob only works if the tuning is there first. tuning for a dual level boost costs more and needs to be done BEFORE you turn up the boost.

with the PWSC, we are getting 250fwhp and 210lb/ft with a full exhaust (like you would have with a turbo), our cams and a retune on the stock PW 12psi pully with more power left on tap with a more agressive tune. without the retune we were seeing 10lb/ft less on stock PW tuning.... Pretty simple power.

"oh but your SC will max out before my Turbo!"

the M62 blower in the PWSC and SVT JRSC will push 18psi, however the JRSC wont do it well without intercooling.
18psi on a built motor, the right internals and a good tune will see 300+fwhp out of a PWSC.

with a T25, you are going to be maxing out your turbo at around 240-260fwhp.
i'm not familiar enough with the td05 to be able to comment on it...
the average turbo that works well with the focus in street trim will peak out at about 250-280fwhp, a few will push 300 and very few will push up to 350, well atleast that come with off "KITS".



i still fail to see the vailidity to the whole "turbos are easier to upgrade" arguement... and turbos + stock header = junk! 

My $0.02
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Who said anything about 14s being special.. as Nate said, we are comparing setup/times.. breaking 14s with 150whp is nothing special either considering I did 16.0 when the car was 100% stock (lets say ~105whp).. add about 40-45whp N/A (around 40% more power), you should be at least in the low 15s and 14s.. at least with this car.. isnt that what the JRSC gives you with 5psi of boost?

As for turbos being easier to upgrade, we don't just say that caus we have turbos. Turbos, are usually more efficient than superchargers. As long as the turbo is not too out of range for the engine you are using it with..same for superchargers. Problem is if you run out of steam from your m45 jrsc BBK .. what are you gonna do? get an m62 for an svt, redo the whole fabrication so its fits?? What other options are there? buy JUST the supercharger from the powerworks kit.. do they even do that?.... Most of the time, people who start with boost have a goal.. and lots of times, after driving with their goal for a while, they want MORE.. So you gonna sell your jrsc , then get a PWSC? Waste of money i think.. Ok its true that you will often "outgrow" components in the car but that is besides the fact.. if you want big power, you will have to upgrade whatever paths you choose whether it be N/A or FI, an engine has its limits. We are talking about the limits of the turbo vs supercharger..

What if my T25 explodes tomorrow.. well i could just get another 200$ rebuilt t25.. or if all of a sudden i want 280whp and faster spool.. oh well i could just get a t28.. or if the turbo still worked, switch compressor side from the t28 to the t25.. or maybe i will just get a new bb gt28 instead and bolt it right on to my exhaust manifold and downpipe.

As for a switch/knob to turn up the boost, well that is just wrong and although it is very easy to turn up the boost with a turbo (when you dont have that option with the supercharger unless it has a boost controller solenoid of some sort), that shouldn't be considered a "mod" for more power.. it should be decided before hand the amount of boost and the tuning for that amount fo boost. IT IS however an added feature that superchargers do not have.. you also have to consider that i am not an engineer and im a computer programmer and still built a turbo setup in my driveway, I never could've pulled that off just taking a supercharger (finding one that matches the engine is even harder) and fabricating everything back to match the engine..

Basicly though, you are talking stricly of the PWSC has its really the only one that has the potential to reach 300whp in a stock (non SVT) zetec.. i thought flo was making 220 and 230lb/ft at 9psi (maybe i got the numbers wrong).. I can imagine with cams, he would get fairly good gains also..but the torque is still there.. also if he were to go up to 12psi, well obviously thats more ponnies there too.. that is also considering that the PWSC hasnt been out THAT long and before that, there wasn't anything with the same potential in the supercharger area.. and also for the price.. the pwsc is not that cheap..


My opinion, is if i were to get a supercharger, the only one i would consider would be the PWSC.. but thats the one that changed the whole s/c on a focus too .. oh yeah and it was made with cosworth.. most people can't make a supercharger kit in their driveway.. again, not saying superchargers are bad..


*EDIT

Its all about torque.. the feeling is not there either in a sc car.. just taking my buddies cobalt lets say.. he runs around the same times as me but you just dont feel it when you're driving.. s/c usually dont get the same torque a turbo can get you either.. i mean 210 is still pretty good.. but at 12psi..a perfectly matched turbo would get you much more than 210..


hell even my buddy and his cobalt SS (that runs actually a little faster than me on the top-end) said he liked turbos better when he drove my car.. the power is there, but the feeling is just not the same.. same if people asked about either going n/a or FI .. its just not the same feeling.. but in the end, this feeling is personal opinion..

I can only imagine if powerworks would work on a turbo setup, what they would be able to attain.. or better yet, if me and flo had the money and r&d and testing facilities that cosworth/powerworks used to develop that 5000$ supercharger kit..

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As far turbo + stock header being junk.. i won't say anything, but I would love to hear your engineering perspective on the stock non-svt zetec engine.