[ZX3TUNING]

Sorry, i like to break up quotes, easier to reply this way...

BerinG,Oct 5 2006, 10:13 AM Wrote:Who said anything about 14s being special.. as Nate said, we are comparing setup/times.. breaking 14s with 150whp is nothing special either considering I did 16.0 when the car was 100% stock (lets say ~105whp).. add about 40-45whp N/A (around 40% more power),  you should be at least in the low 15s and 14s.. at least with this car.. isnt that what the JRSC gives you with 5psi of boost?

while 14s with 150fwhp NA is not something i consider special either, i was just point out that high 14s with boost is something more to be ashamed of! ;) :P

j/k

Quote:As for turbos being easier to upgrade, we don't just say that caus we have turbos. Turbos, are usually more efficient than superchargers. As long as the turbo is not too out of range for the engine you are using it with..same for superchargers. Problem is if you run out of steam from your m45 jrsc BBK .. what are you gonna do? get an m62 for an svt, redo the whole fabrication so its fits?? What other options are there? buy JUST the supercharger from the powerworks kit.. do they even do that?.... Most of the time, people who start with boost have a goal.. and lots of times, after driving with their goal for a while, they want MORE.. So you gonna sell your jrsc , then get a PWSC? Waste of money i think.. Ok its true that you will often "outgrow" components in the car but that is besides the fact.. if you want big power, you will have to upgrade whatever paths you choose whether it be N/A or FI, an engine has its limits. We are talking about the limits of the turbo vs supercharger..

that is just it, with a good SC, you don't need to upgrade it all the time.
there are lots of good SC's out there, it's a matter of building a good kit which is the hard part.
both the Procharger and Vortech (Vortech and FS kits) units will push well into the 300+ ranges. only problem is they have no bottom end to speak of when pushed like that.
I hate to say it but if you were foolish enough to waste your money on a JRSC for the Zetec or SVT, in the pursuit of power, you wasted your money in the first place!! :P
Cutting your losses and moving into a different kit would be the first smart move if you want more power.

Quote:What if my T25 explodes tomorrow.. well i could just get another 200$ rebuilt t25.. or if all of a sudden i want 280whp and faster spool.. oh well i could just get a t28.. or if the turbo still worked, switch compressor side from the t28 to the t25.. or maybe i will just get a new bb gt28 instead and bolt it right on to my exhaust manifold and downpipe.

only easy to do if they share the same turbo flange.
you cannot go from a t25 to a T3, T4 or anything else that isn't based of a Garret T25 flange. and while there is tons of stuff to play with in the GT2x and GT30 lines, most of those are still $1000+cnd retail for a new unit.

Quote:As for a switch/knob to turn up the boost, well that is just wrong and although it is very easy to turn up the boost with a turbo (when you dont have that option with the supercharger unless it has a boost controller solenoid of some sort), that shouldn't be considered a "mod" for more power.. it should be decided before hand the amount of boost and the tuning for that amount fo boost. IT IS however an added feature that superchargers do not have.. you also have to consider that i am not an engineer and im a computer programmer and still built a turbo setup in my driveway, I never could've pulled that off just taking a supercharger (finding one that matches the engine is even harder) and fabricating everything back to match the engine..

with most SC's you are not buying them to be screwing around with different boost levels. you by the kit as it comes and then maybe down the road you opt for the BBK. then again, a SC at 18psi is more drivable than a turbo at 18psi in most cases...
Tekkin on FJ built a M90 JRSC based blower for his Focus at his house... it can be done, you just have to be a little more resourcefull! ;)

Quote:Basicly though, you are talking stricly of the PWSC has its really the only one that has the potential to reach 300whp in a stock (non SVT) zetec.. i thought flo was making 220 and 230lb/ft at 9psi (maybe i got the numbers wrong).. I can imagine with cams, he would get fairly good gains also..but the torque is still there..  also if he were to go up to 12psi, well obviously thats more ponnies there too.. that is also considering that the PWSC hasnt been out THAT long and before that, there wasn't anything with the same potential in the supercharger area.. and also for the price.. the pwsc is not that cheap..

i'm not talking just the PWSC, but i am using as a easy point of comparison.
220 and 230lb/ft at 9psi is pretty impressive considering toms kits at 9psi only seem to make 190fwhp on most cars unless they went to tom for tuning on his dyno... granted it does take power to make power with a SC, our 250fwhp PW car only makes 8.5-9.5psi to get those numbers...
with the PW kit you will see about 150lb/ft from just off idle, most turbo kits don't see that till 2500-3500rpm.
oh and the PW kit is cheap, at $3550cnd shipped, what else is comparable for what you get right out of the box??
again, potential is where you find it.
the Procharger and Vortech kits have the ability to push more power than the PW kits, only problem is focus owners for the most part are either too cheap or don't want to be a test-dummy to see what's possible.

Quote:My opinion, is if i were to get a supercharger, the only one i would consider would be the PWSC.. but thats the one that changed the whole s/c on a focus too .. oh yeah and it was made with cosworth.. most people can't make a supercharger kit in their driveway.. again, not saying superchargers are bad..

fair enough, i'm not saying turbo's are bad... i like turbos, i just like my PWSC more for what i do with the car. out running Lowboost turbo VR6 golfs at the track with a base PW kit is a nice feeling. just wait till it's pushing 18psi and it will be more expensive and faster cars watching this car pass them! ;)

Quote:*EDIT

Its all about torque.. the feeling is not there either in a sc car.. just taking my buddies cobalt lets say.. he runs around the same times as me but you just dont feel it when you're driving.. s/c usually dont get the same torque a turbo can get you either.. i mean 210 is still pretty good.. but at 12psi..a perfectly matched turbo would get you much more than 210..

yes you are right, turbos will make more torque.
but then again a Lysholm SC will make more torque than a Turbo in most cases and will make it from idle to redline, no peaks and dips, just a nice increasing table top! ;)

Quote:hell even my buddy and his cobalt SS (that runs actually a little faster than me on the top-end) said he liked turbos better when he drove my car.. the power is there, but the feeling is just not the same.. same if people asked about either going n/a or FI .. its just not the same feeling.. but in the end, this feeling is personal opinion..

lets compare apples to apples here, where have you driven or ridden in a Turbo focus and SC'ed focus with similar power back to back?

Quote:I can only imagine if powerworks would work on a turbo setup, what they would be able to attain.. or better yet, if me and flo had the money and r&d and testing facilities that cosworth/powerworks used to develop that 5000$ supercharger kit..

to build a good turbo kit you do not need CAD designed parts like with a SC.
with turbo's, it's all piping so you can route and make things fit much easier than a SC... well atleast a roots SC.
with something like a Procharger, once the SC bracket is built and the SC is hung, then you can play with piping all you want! :)

Quote:As far turbo + stock header being junk.. i won't say anything, but I would love to hear your engineering perspective on the stock non-svt zetec engine.
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i was refering to the use of the stock header being "junk" with a turbo.
the stock header is crippling for flow and hurts spoolup in a large way. log manifolds flow a lot better than the stock manifold but nothing tops an equal-length manifold when it comes to turbos....

i give props to those tha build DIY kits using the stock manifold but again, if you are fater serious power, you are going to hit your peak at about 200fwhp with the stock manifold before it starts to become a HUGE bottleneck in the system requiring a complete system overhaul. unless of course you swap it for a shorty header then you get to enjoy welds cracking and exhaust leaks on a regular basis.... :)