[Oscar The Grouch]

Wow looks like i missed all the fun.

Let me put it this way.

Unions are like cops. If society worked fine, we wouldn't need either of them.

However, unions in some instances are a necessary evil to contain a bigger evil.

Unlike in the old days (early 20th century), there are now mechanisms and laws to protect the average worker. Nowadays, unions are needed in some places but they have had a hard time adapting to the new economical environment.

As i see it today, unions are needed in places like china and india really. Why? Cause they are going through the same period as North America did in the 20th century.

Now as for the mining industry, which has many unions on the producer side. The one thing that really bothers me is that when a labour dispute occurrs, there tends to be more "accidents" and damage claims by contractors. Everything occurrs from punctured tires to spray painted company vehicles to random beatings.

From what I hear, and i could be wrong, is that the unions in the mining industry think that contractors basically "take their jobs." Well, in one sense yes. But in most instances, we normally perform the work that either the unions do not want to do (specialized technical work usually or instances where unions don't consider the work safe to them and would require outside assistance) or that labour availability within the union is not available.

Back to the automotive industry. I can understand sparky's opinion on unions, however if unions do not pull back and become more reasonable with concessions, then employers such as Ford, GM and maybe Chrysler will not be sufficiently viable enough to maintain operating status. I'm not sure what the overall concencus is regarding unions believing all that they hear regarding financial statements about their employer, but when a company has "junk" status for their shares, that means that there is trouble.

In any case, I see that companies like Toyota will eventually kill off the competition.

Good question here and maybe one of you can answer it. Within the union terms, if say Ford was bought out by Toyota, could the union be removed in any circumstance?

What if Toyota decided to buy ford and sell off its assets and liquidate?

Anyways that's what I think. I'm not saying unions are bad, but I think the policies and methods within the union are not sustainably viable. I do think that yes, every employee should be compensated for their time with fair pay, benefits, job security and the like. Its really what everybody needs and satisfies some people's wants.

If you have a problem with my opinions, please feel free to PM or post.

I've said this about unions and corporate management alike, I'm not pissed at the people, just the system. :rolleyes: